Oles Busina: Neo-Nazis in Ukraine aren't necessary to the West

Work of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine of the VII convocation is always full of events – the deputies of Svoboda party managed to cut off a fence round the building of Rada, to break off the door and to arrange some fights in a conference hall. What is the passing to parliament of nationalist party “Svoboda” for Ukraine - the next political show or real threat of arrival of neo-Nazis to the power? The writer, the journalist and historian Oles Busina answers this and other questions in interview to “The world and we”.

- How much the new parliament will be efficient and will “power” actions from outside All-Ukrainian Union “Svoboda” which were observed in the first days of its work, system in the new Verkhovna Rada?

I am sure that the present Rada will be few able to function. It would always possible to block a parliamentary tribune as from one and from the other hand. Especially as position of the Ukrainian power today is very unstable, including the international. Cancellation of Yanukovych visit to Moscow says that Ukraine hanged again between EU and the Customs Union. Everything is very unstable and everything can be brought down literally with the finger flick. Therefore Rada won't be effective and capable. I don't say that it absolutely will “lie” or will fight all day long, but it isn't necessary to expect special efficiency from this Rada.

- What do you think of statements of some opposition representatives concerning the cancelled visit, that, allegedly, it didn't take place because certain appointments weren't coordinated with Moscow in new Ukrainian Cabinet?

Appointments in the Ukrainian Cabinet in the most different times happened taking into account a set of factors. Taking into account the relation of foreign states to it. For example, if purely theoretically to submit the improbable scenario that the Party of Regions will create a coalition with All-Ukrainian Union “Svoboda” and the representative of “Svoboda” will be given a post of the Minister of Foreign Affairs, then it will have quite serious consequences for Ukraine. It probably will sharply improve the relations of Ukraine with the Arab countries and at the same time will sharply worsen the relations, for example, with Israel, EU and the USA.

Therefore any appointment is always done taking into account how it will be apprehended in the world around. Because it is necessary to communicate in the world and the accounting of whom Europe or Moscow want to see on this or that post always was present at political deals of all governments of Ukraine. It concerns not only this situation with representation of this factor, as the hypothetical reason of cancellation of Yanukovych visit, but also the times of “orange” including. Many ministers got to their government simply because were considered as good from the point of EU view. Ukraine is the country where the geopolitical tendencies constantly face and terribly become intertwined– one from the West, others from the East. Also it affects actively the domestic policy and the events occurring here.

- What do you think of opinion that All-Ukrainian Union “Svoboda” starts playing a major role in ranks of the Ukrainian opposition? Is it right that if earlier the main opposition parties believed that the members of Svoboda become certain “special troops” in their coalition, now this party seeks to become the main oppositional force?

In many respects the development of this situation will depend on Vitaly Klitschko's position. Opinion polls show that at present time he is a favourite among the oppositionists in presidential running of 2015. And Yanukovych and his environment consider that it would be very favourable to them if Tyahnybok and “Svoboda” become the first number in opposition that it will be easy to win the elections.

Therefore a lot of things depend on Klitschko and his position. If he repeats Yulia Tymoshenko mistakes and will position himself only as highly specialized neo-Banderovite then he will lose the first place in opposition to Tyahnybok and on elections Tyahnybok can win or lose against Yanukovych, the future will show. But if Klitschko convinces the Centre and the East of Ukraine that he isn't an enemy that he won't cancel the regional status of the Russian language, won't forbid the teachers to speak Russian on breaks, that he is for democratic Ukraine, then he has good chances to become the president of Ukraine. All the rest is only the conversations. Opinion polls say that while Klitschko is the first number in ratings. But he can both to strengthen and to lose the positions. Therefore the situation here depends not on Tyahnybok, as on Klitschko and on his environment, how the powerful brains are in his party.

- There are numerous opinions that Svoboda party is somehow connected with the members of the Party of Regions that it is even the project supervised by Party of Regions. Can it be true and how the activity of Svoboda party is controlled from the Party of Regions and the President?

The situation changed, as well as always in policy. Lenin who went in the sealed-up carriage to Russia in 1917 was controlled by intelligence service of the German General Staff. And Lenin who exactly in a year appeared at the head of Red Russia, was already absolutely uncontrollable from the German General Staff. Concerning “Svoboda”, the Party of Regions sought to suppress “Batkivshchyna” and allowed to develop to Tyahnybok and “Svoboda”. Because in September of this year, the PR managers of the members of the Party of Regions, people who were responsible for it in Presidential Administration, considered that if “Svoboda” passes in parliament, hardly will break 5% barrier. I say it on the basis of at least that fact that “Svoboda” was given very ample opportunities to be present at an air. The representatives of “Svoboda” were everywhere, in all talk-shows constantly. And the rating of this party went up since September. Namely from this month after a summer break the talk-shows started to work again. In the summer the rating of Svoboda was around 3% and then sharply went up. Now this party will be exempted from any arrangements with the members of the Party of Regions in every way, from official or informal. Svoboda becomes uncontrollable because they understand - at activity they will be able to win everything or at least a half of Ukraine.

- Considering, that quite big social tension ripened in Ukraine, how much the danger of coming to power of this radical, neo-Nazi party is great especially because after passing to parliament Svoboda has much more opportunities of use of the Ukrainian mass media for promotion of their ideas?

It is necessary that there was a social tension for this purpose. I can give an example of right radical party of Jörg Haider with which, actually, Svoboda is made. Jörg Haider is the Austrian politician, who died a few years ago. In due time he had an opportunity to head Austria, his party won the parliamentary elections. But EU arranged boycott to Austria then and Haider for the personal reasons refused opportunity to create the coalition government though he had very big percent. And it occurred in safe Austria.

In Ukraine I don't exclude such scenario. If, for example, the members of the Party of Regions will advance the law of 10% tax on currency exchange, that, naturally, increase the chances of “Svoboda”. The economy of Ukraine is on the verge of an abyss - the idea of this10% tax couldn't appear in the country which is healthy. It means that the government and National Bank already try to climb “under a pillow” of each citizen, where 5-10 or 50 thousand dollars may lie. The National Bank even counted and called approximate figure, how many currency can be at the population. But is it your money? If these figures are right, it speaks only about to what degree the people of Ukraine don't trust the own government. It is so frightened also by “orange” and in the last two years by “white-blue” that the people don't want to play any games. with banks. They know well – there is a valuable American piece of paper, at any time I will hand over it and will live. I don't want to play neither in any deposits, nor long or short. It is told by the ordinary Ukrainian citizen taught by bitter experience.

- How Svoboda party is considered from EU and the USA? Is it “agent of influence”, the project, allowing to achieve the geopolitical objectives of a separation of Ukraine from Russia or this is the neo-Nazi party, a factor undesirable to the western states in the Ukrainian policy? How to consider the recent statements of European Parliament in this regard in which Svoboda party is condemned and the appeal to other opposition forces contains not to cooperate with it?

Svoboda never was “agent of influence” of EU and the West. Svoboda is an independent, first of all, Galician political force which wants to become all-Ukrainian. But they grew on contradictions between the West and the East. Really, this party is able to use contradictions between EU and Russia, between the East and the West of Ukraine, it grows on contradictions. By the way, Bandera in the same way planned to jump out on contradictions upward. On the one hand he was the agent of “Abwehr” and on the other hand he, without coordinating something with same “Abwehr”, by means of the supporters in June, 1941 tried to proclaim the independent Ukraine from a balcony in Lviv. Therefore it is impossible to consider Svoboda as any “agent of influence” of the West or EU. EU has the negative relation to Nazi, neo-Nazi, ultrarightist ideology. Simply because EU is rich and rather stable society and sharp people who are capable to break stability aren't necessary to such society. Stable, prospering society wants to keep stability. Therefore Napoleons, Hitlers and even de Gaulles turned superfluous for this system. Sarkozy was the last “de Gaulle” in France and as we see, he was superfluous. Therefore if Svoboda will gain popularity in Ukraine, there won't any support from the West.

- What do you think of opinion, that in the conditions of an intense competition with opposition, the main activity of Party of Regions for preservation of the power and for a victory on presidential election in 2015 of Victor Yanukovych there has to be an activization of integration processes with Russia and the Customs Union? What exactly will such policy allow to get support from the strong geopolitical partner and at the majority of the population of Ukraine?

In secret Yanukovych wouldn't like to go neither to EU, nor to the Customs Union and to remain the lifelong president of independent Ukraine which is under control of Victor Fedorovich. He would like to be the president of such big “Mezhgorye” from Chop to the steading Mikhaylovsky. But not everything in this world is solved only by Victor Fedorovich Yanukovych. Therefore, all the same, it is not Yanukovych's choice, but a choice of the Ukrainian society which he should make. If to enter EU or to associate with EU, it means final deindustrialization of Ukraine. It will be possible to give up as a bad job the ship-building industry and even never to dream that it will revive, to give up as a bad job the aircraft manufacturing industry and many other industries. After that introduction there will be 30 million of the Ukrainians. These Ukrainians will grow up bread, to repair bathroom equipment somewhere in London instead of the Poles – probably the Ukrainians will be good plumbers.

In the Customs union there are absolutely other prospects – it is the opportunity to develop own industry and to receive cheap gas. But it isn't necessary to plunder it because if oligarchs will start it “plundering” and to resell, nothing good will turn out even from the Customs Union. What is the difference where the thieves will enter - EU or the Customs Union? The thieves won't cease to be thieves because of this. Therefore the prospects of further development of Ukraine first of all depend not on Yanukovych, but on all Ukrainian society. It depends on businessmen, politicians, intellectuals, economists, experts of different level, writers, on all citizens what they will choose – either the West, or the East. The buzzing for 20 years between the West and the East has simple statistics – there were 52 million Ukrainian citizens in 1991, now less than 46 million are left. I passed only 21 years and here is the statistician of such buzzing “neither your, nor our”. It isn't necessary to think that Yanukovych, either Klitschko, or Tyahnybok will solve everything for all. It is a choice of all Ukrainian society.

P.S. While the Ukrainian Verkhovna Rada “has a good time” with nationalism, on rates of modernization of army, according to conclusions of the Centre of Research of Army, Conversion and Disarmament, Ukraine is the absolute outsider among the countries of Europe!
By Centre of Research of Army, Conversion and Disarmament estimates, “Ukraine is the only in the region, except for Moldova, which doesn't carry out the purchase of new arms”.

Thus, with drums beating about “the Russian threat” there is a complete elimination of the sickly remains of the Ukrainian army and soon Ukraine can be taken even without war. But, certainly, it will be not the Customs Union.