Why the people are for integration and the politicians are against?

The senior research assistant of Institute of Philosophy and Law of the Siberian branch of the Russian Academy of Sciences Vsevolod Grigorevich Kostyuk is known for his works in the field of ethnosocial researches. His biography repeats an epoch in many respects.
Having graduated from the Kiev Polytechnic Institute, the young scientist has arrived to Siberia and under the recommendation of academician Lavrentev enters the Institute of Hydrodynamics for work of the Siberian branch of the Academy of Sciences. Further hehas passed to work in Institute of History, Philology and Philosophy of the Siberian branch of the Academy of Sciences and became one of the founders of school of ethnosociology.

Vsevolod Grigorevich Kostyuk studies the problem of employment of the population and a role of the people of Siberia in modern geopolitics, he is one of the organizers and active participants of an annual international seminar “Ethnosocial processes in Siberia”. Our conversation is about the present time, about what the researcher sees the day today, studying one of the most difficult aspects of life of a society.

- Now the former union republics one for another celebrate the anniversaries, namely 20 years of finding of independence. Naturally, there are the mass of celebrations and speeches as regards this. These speeches are often sustained in such spirit, that all was bad at the time of the Soviet Union and now all is simply remarkable … What is your estimation?

- I specialize on a problem of mutual relation of ethnic and civilized. First of all I want to notice that the so-called local civilization is the big sociocultural formation which is more than the separate nation, but is less than all mankind. The classics of the civilized approach allocated the basic civilizations up to 17, but not all included the Russian civilization in this list. But we act in the researches on the premise that Russia represents the original civilization developing throughout the centuries and taking the various people.

The Russian civilization exists and is a part of the Euroasian civilization. Its borders were defined by classics of Eurasianism: this is the integrated unity of the Slavs, Turkic people and the Arctic substratum of the people of the North.

As to the former union republics, let's remember that all of them were a part of the Russian empire and then the Soviet Union. Not for one year, not two and not ten years – and it couldn't pass completely. As a result the people have generated the cultural and economic values which are close to each other. The Russians absorbed all valuable from Turkic people, Turkic people – from the Russians; there was an interchange and the corresponding values were generated as a result.

It is strange to hear from other adherents of national in these republics that Russia, say, oppressed them for centuries … I can argue on the wildness of similar statements not only as the scientist but also as the person who was born and has grown in Ukraine, studied there but lives and works in Russia. My family is the Russian and Ukrainian symbiosis, I pass all event through myself and can tell what changes occur.

Abundantly clear that the Russians have apprehended many good things both from the Balts, the representatives of Central Asia and from the Ukrainians. And those in turn took all the best from the Russians through the Russian culture, through character of the people, through its open soul. Thanks to it they have got access to knowledge and values of the whole world! For this reason I also believe, that not disintegration, but namely disorder of the Soviet Union became the big tragedy for all people who entered into the common state, as though it wasn’t called at different stages.

- That is, we have the general all the same, as though some politicians didn't try to convince of the return.

- We made researches not only in Russia, but also in Kazakhstan and Mongolia. The people of the Euroasian civilization have the general values: the collectivism, the state role in the lives of people, the bent absence for money-grabbing … All of them and now exist in broad masses.
But the strange picture turns out: the political elite in the countries about which we speak, isn't the national on the mentality! It is absolutely other people! They live in their world while the people lived and live with those civilized values which were generated in centuries. And the people didn't hesitate in the choice unlike elite.

The one, who denies it, can make mischief as much as necessary as if we are wild and, say, it is far to the civilized Europe … But our researches show that the reality of existence of the Russian and Euroasian civilizations is an established fact! And the question is whether the scientific elite will promote today in these countries to strengthening of the general Euroasian consciousness adequately expressing the interests of the people of Eurasia, or will interfere with it on different motives?!

- But how the people can affect the elite behavior, who watch attentively that their positions haven't reeled at all?

- If the people completely realize that the elite takes antinational positions, so it will find the form of expression of the opinion. The history learns us to this! The manipulations with public opinion can give any effect still some time. But all it only for the time being … Sooner or later, but it becomes definitively clear that the elite taken care of the people in words, has nothing general with it. And it is better, if than elite, both political and scientific will take of the fair nationally focused position, considering all civilized features of the modern world.

- Ukraine quite resembles as an example …

- The Ukrainian politicians are guided basically by the West, sometimes playing with Russia. They or sharply against the union with Russia, or hypocritically support it… We see it very clearly. But after all the Ukrainian people are guided not by the West at all – it is guided by Russia! If we could make just the same research as, for example, in Kazakhstan, that, I assure you, we would receive just the same result in Ukraine! And the polls spent by us are representative, they are spent on casual sample, the thousands of people representing the most different groups of the population participate in them - it gives rather full overall picture. I’m ready to repeat once again: there are no disagreements in interests and values of the people of Russia and Ukraine. And not only in Lugansk region, but also other regions, including even the Western Ukraine.

But thus the free will is necessary, instead of that occurs during elective campaigns when we see continuous juggling, of course.

- All this reflected the relation of people and to elective procedures and to a policy in general...

- Today the majority of people negatively concerns a policy. The personal choice becomes by a principle: you live by yourself and don't interfere in our business – we are by ourselves too. The political apathy is especially characteristic for youth. It turns out that so-called democratic revolutions promised to give the freedom to the people but in practice it was debarred from political processes because doesn't see any positive changes.
Let’s take such institute, as the Commonwealth of Independent States. After all it is a palliative; the CIS is faster the communication mechanism between politicians, instead of between the people who are interested in higher degree of integration.

I am convinced that if the free referendum has been held in Russia, Ukraine, Belarus and Kazakhstan, all people would express for unity restoration. Politically it could be the association as the European Union, but with more integration.

- That is, in spite of the statements of many representatives of ruling elite, there is no the tearing away of integration idea?

- There is no tearing away of this idea among the people. The matter is that the existing elite should be replaced on nationally oriented. It is necessary to distinguish the national factor and nationalism. The nationalism is the singular condition of the national.

For example, I will tell about myself that I have the national consciousness of the Ukrainian, I live in Russia and I am proud of the Ukrainian origin and the Ukrainian culture. In the same way, as well as the Russian which is native for me! The millions of people in our countries have normal national consciousness and at the same time they aren't the nationalists at all. And it is absolutely normal!

I want to tell about one of the conclusions which we have made during our researches. The more national consciousness is developed at the person, the less he has the negative in the relation to other people! Especially it is character for youth. We have come to such conclusion, working with schoolboys and students. The national consciousness should be developed, but within the limits of understanding that there is wider association, than the nation. It is a question of a civilization. Not Bandera define the Ukrainian national consciousness who lifts a head in the west of republic - it is defined by people who perfectly understand things about which we speak today.

- Vsevolod Grigorevich, there is one more prominent aspect of a problem which is a theme of our today's conversation. It is a question of school history textbooks. They wrote such things in textbooks in some republics, that simply you are amazed! But it’s no time for joking …

- If the idea civilized unity develops in scientific and political communities, of course, it is necessary to speak about this theme and in school textbooks. Unfortunately, while the idea civilized unity hasn't taken a place appropriate to it even in scientific circles – what to speak about tutorials?! They interpret in other of them that it is necessary to be guided only by the western civilization and the Euroasian civilization is something wild, minor … Therefore it is necessary to begin with that the point of view caused by all course of our development, became dominating in scientific circles.

As it is known, the textbooks are used different and if there will be the experts who can write the normal textbook from the point of view of civilized approach, it would be the big deal. And the certain chain reaction can follow it in good sense actually. Perhaps, also it is necessary to exclude the political elite at the given stage to and to work, as they say, from below. And already the elite will change in the future …

But it is not necessary to write about integration only as about the economic factor when there is a question on benefit in the foreground- it is too important, of course, but only one economic aspect doesn't mention the relations of the people! It is necessary to see the matter more widely.

- Many negative factors influence today the Euroasian consciousness – whether it collapses today?

- Certainly, it is influenced by nationalist warps towards Russophobia, but there is no real danger now. And first of all that the civilized unity of the people exists really! There are only the conflicts on the foreground as it isn't supported by the political system in a normal channel. That separates, instead of that unites is stuck out. For this reason we can't live eternally by inertia of the good past – it is necessary to undertake the corresponding actions to stimulate the good present. And to influence the future ipso facto.

We also work in this respect. We try to search for that unites us, without hiding the available problems.